Is that what they told you in RCIA class?--Actually I was the TEACHER, and I can prove my position biblically.

Newbie   Join Date: 29th January 2013 Location: Central Florida Posts: 73 Blessings: 1,008,946 [Bless] Reps: 3,253,569,843,833,554 (power: 3,253,569,843,834)

=Albion;62327206] Is that what they told you in RCIA class? No, there were no denominations in those days. Actually I was the TEACHER, and I can prove my position biblically. God Bless, Pat

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#12     3rd February 2013, 07:23 PM

Albion Legend   Join Date: 8th December 2004 Posts: 34,268 Blessings: 70,606,645 [Bless] Reps: 4,364,299,182,960,029,696 (power: 4,364,299,182,960,072)

Originally Posted by PJM Actually I was the TEACHER, and I can prove my position biblically. Then you should be able to appreciate how transparent such denominational propaganda comes across to those who have not taken the "whatever my church says" approach to truth.

#13     4th February 2013, 05:23 PM

gnosisofthomas Christian Gnostic   Join Date: 1st February 2013 Posts: 11 Blessings: 3,288 [Bless] Reps: 10 (power: 0)

Originally Posted by Albion Is that what they told you in RCIA class? No, there were no denominations in those days. They were catholic in the sense of "universal," but that shouldn't be confused with Roman Catholicism. We might not call them denominations, but there were a number of different schools of thought in early Christianity prior to the establishment of orthodoxy. That's what the councils were for, to decide which beliefs were orthodox and could be backed by the Roman Empire, and which ones were heterodox or "heretical". Originally Posted by PJM But how does it apply outside of the catholic and Orthodox church's? Apostolic Succession is passed on from bishop to bishop through the laying on of hands. Some people who have been consecrated bishops have gone on to establish denominations outside of Eastern Orthodox or Roman Catholic jurisdiction. The degree to which their validity is recognized by Catholic and Orthodox churches varies... Roman Catholicism generally considers their episcopacies valid but illicit because they are not in union with the pope. The Eastern Orthodox (if I remember correctly) don't consider non-Orthodox ordination to be valid at all. Basically the idea outside of Orthodoxy is that once a bishop has received the sacrament of holy orders, he's always a bishop. You can't take a sacrament back from someone. So he can validly pass on the apostolic succession to someone else to make them a bishop. From the Catholic perspective, this is illicit because he didn't do it with the approval of Rome, and his "schismatic" church may teach things contrary to the Roman Catholic faith.

#14     4th February 2013, 05:30 PM

Albion Legend   Join Date: 8th December 2004 Posts: 34,268 Blessings: 70,606,645 [Bless] Reps: 4,364,299,182,960,029,696 (power: 4,364,299,182,960,072)

Originally Posted by gnosisofthomas They were catholic in the sense of "universal," but that shouldn't be confused with Roman Catholicism. Correct, but the word wasn't even used in any context until ca 100 AD. We might not call them denominations, but there were a number of different schools of thought in early Christianity prior to the establishment of orthodoxy. That's true.

#15     4th February 2013, 05:46 PM

PJM Newbie   Join Date: 29th January 2013 Location: Central Florida Posts: 73 Blessings: 1,008,946 [Bless] Reps: 3,253,569,843,833,554 (power: 3,253,569,843,834)

=Albion;62328679]Then you should be able to appreciate how transparent such denominational propaganda comes across to those who have not taken the "whatever my church says" approach to truth. My friend, While I appeciate your personal views. However what I shared is not propoganda; rather it is the singular truth, Proveable both historically and biblically. God Bless you, pat/JM

#16     4th February 2013, 05:52 PM

Albion Legend   Join Date: 8th December 2004 Posts: 34,268 Blessings: 70,606,645 [Bless] Reps: 4,364,299,182,960,029,696 (power: 4,364,299,182,960,072)

Originally Posted by PJM My friend, While I appeciate your personal views. Then you should also be able to appreciate history. In the first century or so, there was no Apostolic Succession as it we know it, but it developed as a safeguard about the background of the minister and therefore his credibility. And no, everyone was NOT a Catholic in those days, not by any meaning of the word. Peace.

#17     4th February 2013, 06:02 PM

PJM Newbie   Join Date: 29th January 2013 Location: Central Florida Posts: 73 Blessings: 1,008,946 [Bless] Reps: 3,253,569,843,833,554 (power: 3,253,569,843,834)

=Albion;62336950]Then you should also be able to appreciate history. In the first century or so, there was no Apostolic Succession as it we know it, but it developed as a safeguard about the background of the minister and therefore his credibility. And no, everyone was NOT a Catholic in those days, not by any meaning of the word. Peace. Of course there was. Not by name but by the actions of the Apostles themselves. Act 2:28 " Take heed to yourselves, and to the whole flock, wherein the Holy Ghost hath placed you bishops, to rule the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood." Phil. 1:1 "Paul and Timothy, the servants of Jesus Christ; to all the saints in Christ Jesus, who are at Philippi, with the bishops and deacons" God Bless you, pat/PJM

#18     4th February 2013, 06:50 PM

Albion Legend   Join Date: 8th December 2004 Posts: 34,268 Blessings: 70,606,645 [Bless] Reps: 4,364,299,182,960,029,696 (power: 4,364,299,182,960,072)

Originally Posted by PJM Of course there was. You DON'T believe that there were many different Christian groups, including many Gnostics and others we'd call unorthodox? Not by name but by the actions of the Apostles themselves. Oh yes, some of these men traced their training to one of the Apostles. That's how they established their credibility. But the idea of a lineage conferring some sort of Apostolic authority was known not from the beginning and only developed in the late first century.

#19     5th February 2013, 03:15 PM

PJM Newbie   Join Date: 29th January 2013 Location: Central Florida Posts: 73 Blessings: 1,008,946 [Bless] Reps: 3,253,569,843,833,554 (power: 3,253,569,843,834)

=Albion;62337232]You DON'T believe that there were many different Christian groups, including many Gnostics and others we'd call unorthodox? Oh yes, some of these men traced their training to one of the Apostles. That's how they established their credibility. But the idea of a lineage conferring some sort of Apostolic authority was known not from the beginning and only developed in the late first century. No, actually they all did. Your position must deny the reality of Christ Mandate to cf. "GO!And teach the ENTIRE WOLD what I God Taught to YOU." Mk. 16"14-20 "At length he appeared to the eleven as they were at table: and he upbraided them with their incredulity and hardness of heart, because they did not believe them who had seen him after he was risen again. And he said to them: Go ye into the whole world, and preach the gospel to every creature. He that believeth and is baptized, shall be saved: but he that believeth not shall be condemned. And these signs shall follow them that believe: In my name they shall cast out devils: they shall speak with new tongues. They shall take up serpents; and if they shall drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them: they shall lay their hands upon the sick, and they shall recover. And the Lord Jesus, after he had spoken to them, was taken up into heaven, and sitteth on the right hand of God.But they going forth preached everywhere: the Lord working withal, and confirming the word with signs that followed. Then Look up Mt. 10: 1-8 Mt. 28: 16; 18-20 "And the eleven disciples [APOSTLES] went into Galilee, unto the mountain where Jesus had appointed them. And Jesus coming, spoke to them, saying: All power is given to me in heaven and in earth.Going therefore, teach ye all nations; baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost. Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and behold I am with you all days, even to the consummation of the world. Your position would have the Apostles not knowing Jesus said this them MOMEMENTS before He was taken from their site. IMPOSSIBLE my friend. God Bless you, pat/PJM

#20     5th February 2013, 05:10 PM

Albion Legend   Join Date: 8th December 2004 Posts: 34,268 Blessings: 70,606,645 [Bless] Reps: 4,364,299,182,960,029,696 (power: 4,364,299,182,960,072)

Originally Posted by PJM No, actually they all did. What? You think that every evangelist and teacher in the first century had been commissioned directly and studied under one of the Twelve Apostles? No, that's not the case. Your position would have the Apostles not knowing Jesus said this them MOMEMENTS before He was taken from their site. IMPOSSIBLE my friend. I don't know where you got such ridiculous notions, but nothing I wrote has anything to do with that. Before you decide what my "position would have," read what I wrote with a little more care...and don't let your imagination run away with you.