What exactly did the PJM mean when he asked the questions?--I thought he was challenging members of Apostolic churches other than his own to try proving their credentials to his satisfaction.

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gnosisofthomas Christian Gnostic   Join Date: 1st February 2013 Posts: 11 Blessings: 3,288 [Bless] Reps: 10 (power: 0)

Originally Posted by Cappadocious Many more after the establishment of Orthodoxy, because Orthodoxy was established before the advent of the neoplatonic prophet Plotinus. I would disagree with that... There were certainly proto-orthodox Christians in the first few centuries, but when I speak of a formal orthodoxy, I'm referring to the "official" form of Christianity established around the Council of Nicea. That's not to say there's anything in the Nicene Creed I particularly disagree with, but that council established a formal universal orthodoxy throughout the Empire. Plotinus lived and died before the Council of Nicea. Originally Posted by Cappadocious Why do you accept the Roman Catholic definition of catholic as "universal"? I'm confused by your question... Roman Catholics have a very different idea of what "catholic" means. The word "katholikos" literally means universal or general. What does it mean to you? Originally Posted by Cappadocious Except for the Councils of Jerusalem, Rome, Ephesus, Carthage, Iconium, Gangra, Arabia, Ancyra, Arles, and the post-Roman councils of Iasi and Jerusalem 1672, among numerous other non-Ecumenical (Roman dominion) councils. Maybe I should clarify that by "catholic" and "orthodox" (without capital letters), I'm not referring to any particular denomination such as Eastern Orthodoxy, Roman Catholicism, etc. Maybe it would have been better to say "Chalcedonian Christianity" to describe orthodox-catholic Christianity as a whole prior to the East-West split. __________________ "The Lord did everything in a Mystery: a Baptism, and a Chrism, and a Eucharist, and a Redemption, and a Bride Chamber." - Gospel of Philip

#23     6th February 2013, 07:16 PM

PJM Newbie   Join Date: 29th January 2013 Location: Central Florida Posts: 73 Blessings: 1,008,946 [Bless] Reps: 3,253,569,843,833,554 (power: 3,253,569,843,834)

=Cappadocious;62347786]Many more after the establishment of Orthodoxy, because Orthodoxy was established before the advent of the neoplatonic prophet Plotinus. Why do you accept the Roman Catholic definition of catholic as "universal"? Except for the Councils of Jerusalem, Rome, Ephesus, Carthage, Iconium, Gangra, Arabia, Ancyra, Arles, and the post-Roman councils of Iasi and Jerusalem 1672, among numerous other non-Ecumenical (Roman dominion) councils. WHY ACCEPT the Catholic definations? [HUGE SMILES ADDED] Because they are the SINGULAR truths. WORKS for me [another HUGE smile] And It's provalbe biblically and much of it historically as well. It's always a joy [seriously] to speak with folks who claim to know MORE and or to Know bwtter than God. [Add another HUGHE smile] continued Blessings my friends, working4christ/ PJM / Pat

#24     8th February 2013, 03:11 PM

Cappadocious Nubes ex Deus   Join Date: 29th September 2012 Posts: 913 Blessings: 1,128,833 [Bless] Reps: 258,081,270,504,180,640 (power: 258,081,270,504,181)

Originally Posted by gnosisofthomas I'm confused by your question... Roman Catholics have a very different idea of what "catholic" means. The word "katholikos" literally means universal or general. What does it mean to you? The word "katholikos" literally means "according to the whole". Originally Posted by gnosisofthomas Maybe I should clarify that by "catholic" and "orthodox" (without capital letters), I'm not referring to any particular denomination such as Eastern Orthodoxy, Roman Catholicism, etc. Maybe it would have been better to say "Chalcedonian Christianity" to describe orthodox-catholic Christianity as a whole prior to the East-West split. I think the confusion arose because you said "the councils" were there to decide what could be backed by the Roman Empire. __________________ "What is man, that You remember him? The son of man, that You visit him, And make him a little less than Divine, and with honor and majesty compass him? You make him to rule over the works of Your hands; all You have placed under his feet."

#25     8th February 2013, 04:53 PM

gnosisofthomas Christian Gnostic   Join Date: 1st February 2013 Posts: 11 Blessings: 3,288 [Bless] Reps: 10 (power: 0)

Originally Posted by Cappadocious The word "katholikos" literally means "according to the whole". Okay... so how is that much different from "universal"? It refers to the whole of Christendom. __________________ "The Lord did everything in a Mystery: a Baptism, and a Chrism, and a Eucharist, and a Redemption, and a Bride Chamber." - Gospel of Philip

#26     8th February 2013, 11:44 PM

Cappadocious Nubes ex Deus   Join Date: 29th September 2012 Posts: 913 Blessings: 1,128,833 [Bless] Reps: 258,081,270,504,180,640 (power: 258,081,270,504,181)

Originally Posted by gnosisofthomas Okay... so how is that much different from "universal"? It refers to the whole of Christendom. We would say that it properly refers to the complete and whole Church that exists in and through the Eucharistic community of bishop, presbyter, deacon and laity. As St. Ignatius says, "where the bishop is, there is the catholic church." We do not believe it means "universal" in the sense of covering the most space or encompassing the most Christian-identifying people, or Christendom as a whole. In the context of the Roman Empire that would be close to "Ecumene". __________________ "What is man, that You remember him? The son of man, that You visit him, And make him a little less than Divine, and with honor and majesty compass him? You make him to rule over the works of Your hands; all You have placed under his feet."

#27     9th February 2013, 10:16 AM

Albion Legend   Join Date: 8th December 2004 Posts: 34,268 Blessings: 70,606,645 [Bless] Reps: 4,364,299,182,960,029,696 (power: 4,364,299,182,960,072)

Originally Posted by gnosisofthomas Okay... so how is that much different from "universal"? It refers to the whole of Christendom. Not really. The meaning is closer to "authentic." It definitely does NOT refer primarily to the geographical spread of the faith or the number of adherents.

#28     21st February 2013, 04:12 AM

WisdomTree Philosopher 23   Join Date: 2nd February 2012 Location: Seoul, Korea Posts: 1,882 Blessings: 843 [Bless] My Mood Reps: 215,807,969,309,951,712 (power: 215,807,969,309,954)

What exactly did the OP mean when he asked the questions? __________________ Justification and Sanctification is by Grace through Faith with Charity. This is taught by the Sacred Magisterium, the Sacred Tradition, and the Sacred Scriptures of the Church which our Lord Christ Jesus himself established through his Apostles and Disciples, and spoken by the Prophets before them. To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. εἰς τὸ ὄνομα τοῦ Πατρὸς καὶ τοῦ Υἱοῦ καὶ τοῦ Ἁγίου Πνεύματος in nomine Patris, et Filii, et Spiritūs Sancti

#29     21st February 2013, 10:05 AM

Albion Legend   Join Date: 8th December 2004 Posts: 34,268 Blessings: 70,606,645 [Bless] Reps: 4,364,299,182,960,029,696 (power: 4,364,299,182,960,072)

Originally Posted by WisdomTree What exactly did the OP mean when he asked the questions? I thought he was challenging members of Apostolic churches other than his own to try proving their credentials to his satisfaction.

#30     16th March 2013, 03:29 PM

kyrieeleison01 Newbie   Join Date: 12th March 2013 Location: Chambersburg, PA Posts: 3 Blessings: 2,037 [Bless] Reps: 10 (power: 0)

Any church that claims to "be apostolic" is the fartherst thing from it. Those who truly walk in the apostilic, individually or corporately, have no need to make it part of their title.